Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Ad Hoc Outreach Committee

April 5 , 2000

Commission Hearing Room
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
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         7        BE IT REMEMBERED that heretofore on the 

         8   5th day of April 2000, there came on to be heard 

         9   matters under the regulatory authority of the 

        10   Parks and Wildlife Commission of Texas, in the 

        11   Commission Hearing Room of the Texas Parks and 

        12   Wildlife Headquarters complex, Austin, Travis 

        13   County, Texas, beginning at 5:05 p.m., to wit:

        14

        15
             APPEARANCES: 
        16   THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION: 
             AD HOC OUTREACH COMMITTEE: 
        17   Chair:         Alvin L. Henry
                            Lee M. Bass (absent) 
        18                  Carol E. Dinkins 
                            Dick W. Heath 
        19                  Nolan Ryan 
                            Ernest Angelo, Jr. 
        20                  John Avila, Jr. 
                            Katharine Armstrong Idsal 
        21                  Mark E. Watson, Jr. 

        22   THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT:
             Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director, and other 
        23   personnel of the Parks and Wildlife Department  

        24

        25
.                                                                     2



         1                     APRIL 5, 2000 

         2

         3   ITEM NO. 2 - BRIEFING - OUTREACH INITIATIVE STATUS 

         4   REPORT.

         5                  MR. SANSOM:  Commissioner Henry.  

         6   It's your Outreach Program. 

         7                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Mr. Chairman, 

         8   this is a fairly new effort that's underway, so 

         9   I'm just going to ask Dr. Larry McKinney to come 

        10   forward and give the oral presentation that 

        11   they've prepared to make.  I think that will save 

        12   a little time.  

        13                  DR. McKINNEY:  Thank you, 

        14   Mr. Chairman.  What I will try to do again, in the 

        15   essence of time, is try to be brief but try to 

        16   bring you up to speed on some things that we're 

        17   doing to initiate some of the outreach efforts, 

        18   according to the Chairman's Charge.  We'll just 

        19   begin with that.  

        20                  Of course, for our agency, outreach 

        21   is an important part of everything we do as an 

        22   agency and always has been, as you've seen from 

        23   the presentations today and so forth.  It seems 

        24   like a growing part of our time is spent dealing 

        25   with issues like that, social issues rather than 
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         1   the resource issues, because that's important to 

         2   what we do.  

         3                  But what we're going to focus on in 

         4   this strategy, this outreach strategy, and along 

         5   with the Chairman's Charges, is to look at 

         6   Frankwood building our constitutent base, bringing 

         7   new users in and future users.  That's the 

         8   strategy that we're going to be looking at 

         9   according to our charge. 

        10                  If we are successful, what would it 

        11   look like?  What will our outreach goals achieve? 

        12   Well, it's really three things, I think.  

        13                  One, at a very minimum, is 

        14   developing an appreciation through participation; 

        15   people doing things at our sites.  At a minimum, 

        16   we're going to do that.                            

        17                  Certainly, we hope to develop 

        18   conservation-minded citizens at some point.  We're 

        19   going to need them in the future for decisions 

        20   we're going to make.  

        21                  And certainly not least is users, 

        22   paying users, which we are going to need as well.

        23                  So if we're successful, are the 

        24   types of things that we're going to achieve.  If 

        25   we've going to do that on the scale that we need 
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         1   to across the State, we're going to have to be 

         2   very systematic about it.  We're going to have to 

         3   build a framework of how we're going to approach 

         4   it and follow that framework, and that's really 

         5   what I want to spend a few minutes on is looking 

         6   at that.  And that outreach framework is going to 

         7   have to be built on sound educational apprentices, 

         8   and it's really straighforward; but there's a 

         9   model that we'll have to follow, and I want to 

        10   spend just a few minutes kind of laying that model 

        11   out, because I think it makes sense in giving us 

        12   direction as to where we want to go.  

        13                  And, of course, that model is built 

        14   initially on building awareness and appreciation; 

        15   that is, going out and getting the people to 

        16   participate.  If we're going to bring these people 

        17   into the loop, they have to develop an awareness 

        18   of what we're doing and an appreciation for it; 

        19   and we're very good at that, frankly.  But what 

        20   we're going to be looking at here is: Where are we 

        21   missing that target market?  What are we missing? 

        22   What groups are we not getting at, and how do we 

        23   get at them?  

        24                  To give you an example of what 

        25   we're talking about and what we do here, for 
.                                                                     5



         1   example, Expo is an important way in which we get 

         2   at that. Park visitations, Kid Fish, outreach 

         3   efforts like that are what we do in getting that 

         4   awareness or appreciation up up to where it 

         5   should be.  

         6                  As we move through that model, and 

         7   once we get that awareness and appreciation, 

         8   trying to develop the skills and knowledge to use 

         9   to enjoy the outdoors and acquiring that type of 

        10   thing is where is we want to take our next 

        11   outreach efforts.  

        12                  And in those types of things, what 

        13   we do, for example -- and we're very good, again, 

        14   at this -- is hunter education, technical guidance 

        15   that we provide to landowners.  Those types of 

        16   things for our publications and interpretation in 

        17   our parks is that next level of getting these 

        18   folks skills, our users skills. 

        19                  The next level that we move into, 

        20   again, is moving those users into constituents. 

        21   We want to make them constituents of ours.  So 

        22   once they have acquired their awareness and 

        23   appreciation and they've acquired the skills to 

        24   participate, we want them to take ownership in 

        25   what we're doing, to become a constituent our 
.                                                                     6



         1   ours.  

         2                  And these are the types of things 

         3   like becoming an Outdoorwoman and Buffalo 

         4   Soldiers, those types of things that we do.  

         5                  It's also at this point, really, 

         6   that it becomes very resource-intensive.  It takes 

         7   people and dollars to move into this next phase. 

         8   We're very good at the agency at working the mass 

         9   level of bringing into people into parks and that 

        10   awareness and appreciation; but when we move into 

        11   the area of trying to convert these users into 

        12   constituents, that's where we need the partners to 

        13   help us do it, because it's an intensive job.      

        14                  And, finally, of course, what we 

        15   want to accomplish is really a behavioral change, 

        16   making our constituents make this a part of 

        17   something they want to do with their lives.  And 

        18   in that role, our job is to provide opportunities 

        19   for them to do that.  Outdoor Kids, the 

        20   Conservation Passport, those types of things is 

        21   what we're trying to develop.    

        22                  The model act really describes what 

        23   happens in an outreach process, a successful one, 

        24   basically how do we make best use of it?  Well, 

        25   these are some assumptions we have to make.  
.                                                                     7



         1                  First of all, we basically are 

         2   doing outreaches on a programatic and individual 

         3   level.  We're been doing this for some time.  It's 

         4   nothing new to us.  We know how to do that.  The 

         5   difference is that there are many people that we 

         6   are not now reaching.  That's where we have to go. 

         7   And if we're not reaching them, then certainly 

         8   there is room for improvement in what we do in 

         9   our outreach so that we can get to those folks. 

        10   And we have to understand that there are inherent 

        11   limits to our capacity and to the resources we 

        12   have to do this, and we have to address that 

        13   issue.  

        14                  So if we have this as a model and 

        15   we accept both that and the assumptions, then 

        16   basically where do we need to focus on the 

        17   outreach strategies?  And they really come down 

        18   into a number of major areas:  coordination, 

        19   evaluation, targeting of partnerships, and then 

        20   resources.  And I briefly want to touch on a 

        21   couple of those issues.  

        22                  For example, coordination:  This is 

        23   really an issue that's important to us internally 

        24   of trying to make sure that all of our divisions 

        25   work together effectively.  What we have is a 
.                                                                     8



         1   very decentralized system, and we enjoy a lot of 

         2   the benefits from that; a lot of diverse programs, 

         3   very effective programs.  

         4                  But if we're going to move in the 

         5   direction that we need to go to be effective, we 

         6   have to better coordinate; so we have to develop 

         7   ways to do that.  And at the end of the 

         8   presentation today, we're going to be talking 

         9   about some of those.

        10                  Our regional concepts:  We're going 

        11   to look at sites in our regions where we can focus 

        12   the various divisions together.  For example, 

        13   you'll hear today about Sheldon as a center in the 

        14   Houston region where we can bring our staff from 

        15   our divisions together to be effective in that 

        16   kind of outreach.  And there's others as well, 

        17   Government Canyon and so forth that we're looking 

        18   at. 

        19                  Evaluation is something that we 

        20   need to improve on, because how can we tell where 

        21   we are going if we don't know where we've been? 

        22   Are we going to be looking at all levels from 

        23   individual efforts and performance plans to try to 

        24   standardize our programmatic evaluations?  Which 

        25   we do, but we need to make sure we can work across 
.                                                                     9



         1   the board with that.  

         2                  And most importantly, agencywide -- 

         3   which is another one of the charges looking at us 

         4   -- how can we make that evaluation across this 

         5   State?  How are we being effective on a statewide 

         6   basis?  And that effort is underway.  Lydia 

         7   Saldana and others and Bob Cook are leading that 

         8   effort to try to establish the basis so we can 

         9   make those kinds of evaluations.

        10                  Targeting:  Again, our targets for 

        11   this effort are youth, minorities, women, and 

        12   urban situations.  That's where we want to target 

        13   our efforts to build that constituent base and 

        14   bring new users into our fold to become 

        15   constituents.

        16                  To do that, it's going to take, as 

        17   I said, partnerships.  We're going to have to 

        18   develop those partnerships for several reasons. 

        19   One, we simply do not have the people power to do 

        20   it.  We're going to have to magnify our impact 

        21   through building partnerships with others, and 

        22   also to bring resources.  Again, we do not have 

        23   the resources to do we need; but, certainly, if we 

        24   can bring our partners in with us and multiply 

        25   those resources, we can accomplish that.  
.                                                                    10



         1                  And I'm going to turn this over now 

         2   to Bob Murphy, who is our Outreach Coordinator, 

         3   and others who will come up and talk with you just 

         4   very briefly to give you an idea of how we're 

         5   going to take all of that -- and I ran through it 

         6   very quickly with you -- but how we can focus 

         7   those areas and try to make some impact.  So I 

         8   think, frankly, it's quite exciting.  It's an 

         9   opportunity, I think, for us to bring all of our 

        10   resources together to work with you all as 

        11   individuals Members of the Commission to have us 

        12   build some of those partnerships and gain those 

        13   resources to match what we have.  And I think then 

        14   we can really begin to step into that next level 

        15   of outreach and accomplish what we're going to 

        16   need to do to be a relevant player in the new 

        17   Texas of the next 30 years with a population that 

        18   is changing.  

        19                  So at this point I'm going to turn 

        20   it over to Bob Murphy to begin to give you just a 

        21   feel -- and we'll talk more about these through 

        22   the year -- just give you a feel for where we want 

        23   to go and get your input on this. 

        24                  MR. MURPHY:  Thank you, Larry. 

        25                  One of the snapshots I'd like to 
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         1   give you is of an effort that we've been working 

         2   on for months now.  And I don't want to jinx it 

         3   by giving you too many details, but basically 

         4   there's a grant before the Texas Education Agency 

         5   right now, and their granting process is called 

         6   "Technology:  Integration and Education.  They 

         7   currently have $33 million to give to schools to 

         8   integrate techology into their education 

         9   curriculum.  

        10                  And what we have formed is a 

        11   partnership with some rural schools across Texas. 

        12   We will be focusing on 22 of our sites and having 

        13   those rural schools that are close in proximity to 

        14   those in 19 school districts applying for 

        15   $2.4 million through that $33 million grant 

        16   program.

        17                  Basically, we partnered with the 

        18   Texas Rural Systemic Initiative, a group that is 

        19   already together focused on the poorer schools, 

        20   the poorer counties in Texas.  And we are asking 

        21   for support for those 19 districts.  The money 

        22   would go to them, but they would then study our 

        23   parks and our wildlife management areas.  And it 

        24   would meet their needs in technology, it would 

        25   meet their needs in training and in other 
.                                                                    12



         1   programs in order for them to bring their students 

         2   to our sites and study them.  

         3                  Basically, again, part of that 

         4   money would come to us.  About $700,000 would go 

         5   to our Foundation to create a management plan, a 

         6   management program for this grant project.  It 

         7   would also provide money for evaluation of the 

         8   entire program and money to have the teachers 

         9   working at our sites during the two summers that 

        10   surround the school year that this grant would go 

        11   for.                   

        12                  In summer of 2000 the teachers 

        13   would learn about our sites.  In the school year 

        14   of 2000-2001 the students would visit our sites 

        15   and learn about it, share what they learned 

        16   through the Internet, and communicate with each 

        17   other.  And then in summer of 2001 those local 

        18   communities, some of them very small and very 

        19   interested in this for their students to learn 

        20   about, would then celebrate the progress they made 

        21   through this grant.                    

        22                  So if we get the grant, we'll come 

        23   back and celebrate ourselves. 

        24                  COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  Would you 

        25   just give us an example or two of what rural 
.                                                                    13



         1   communities are involved in this?  

         2                  MR. MURPHY:  Well, if you look up 

         3   in the Panhandle area, there's three red stars 

         4   surrounding the wildlife management there, the 

         5   Playa Lakes wildlife management areas.  Those 

         6   three school districts would be studing those 

         7   Playa Lakes.  They would also visit Palo Duro 

         8   Canyon up there.  The opportunity would be for 

         9   them to say when they first saw whooping cranes 

        10   using those Playa Lakes.  

        11                  If it had been along the coast, the 

        12   mid-coast, Aransas County ISD would have students 

        13   studying Goose Island State Park and Fulton 

        14   Mansion and also learning through the Rockport 

        15   Marine Lab.  And those students would also be 

        16   aware of when those whoopers arrived at their 

        17   wintering grounds.  They could be sharing 

        18   information about the migrational patterns of 

        19   whooping cranes. 

        20                  There's Village Creek State Park, 

        21   Caddo Lake State Park, Mason Mountain Wildlife 

        22   Management Area, the Chapparal, Choke Canyon, 

        23   Garner State Park, McKinney Falls State Park.  It 

        24   would be an interesting complex of communities and 

        25   park facilities or Parks and Wildlife facilities 
.                                                                    14



         1   for them to learn from.  

         2                  The second thing I wanted to give 

         3   you a snapshot on was the status of the Outdoor 

         4   Kids Program.  Dr. McKinney explained that program 

         5   in a briefing at your previous meeting, but I 

         6   wanted to let you know that we are in the current 

         7   stage of the third round of our statewide pilot of 

         8   this program.  And in the previous two summers we 

         9   provided funding to our staff to conduct Outdoor 

        10   Kids projects at their facilities or in their 

        11   programs.  The call for their proposals is out 

        12   right now, and those are due on the 14th of this 

        13   month, so we'll know what it looks like, what 

        14   they're going to be proposing, what they're going 

        15   to be wanting to do, and funding those.  

        16                  The significant there is we would 

        17   be providing resources to our staff for the 

        18   Outdoor Kids Program to continue.  

        19                  We recently just finished a survey 

        20   of last year's program, with a very positive 

        21   response from our field staff to the program. 

        22   There were 7400 kids involved directly with our 

        23   staff in that program, and they suggested that 

        24   this program will really suit kids aged 8 to 13. 

        25   They were very supportive of a recent revision of 
.                                                                    15



         1   the Journal that's been provided. 

         2                  I would also tell you that besides 

         3   the Outdoor Kids that participated at our sites, 

         4   we've begun to get an awful lot of school 

         5   districts, school groups, and community groups 

         6   participating in the program on their own.  I got 

         7   an e-mail this morning from a teacher in Pasadena, 

         8   Texas, who has 120 children participating and 

         9   completing the program right now.  

        10                  This program will be very 

        11   applicable to our urban regional pilots that we'll 

        12   be explaining at the end of this briefing.  And 

        13   that's also going back to the tie grant.  What 

        14   that would set up, if we have rural students, 

        15   rural kids becoming very familiar with our 

        16   properties and providing information in a network, 

        17   then another strategy later on would be to have 

        18   the urban kids also doing the same thing and 

        19   learning from the rural kids.  

        20                  So this Outdoor Kids Program that's 

        21   all built around that would be a basis for 

        22   applying resources to support our staff, to 

        23   conduct Outdoor Kids Programs, and to coordinate 

        24   students learning throughout the State and 

        25   supporting one another and learning through the 
.                                                                    16



         1   process.                

         2                  So now I'll turn it over to Darlene 

         3   Lewis, who's going to give you an update on the 

         4   Community Outdoor Outreach Program. 

         5                  MS. LEWIS:  Good afternoon.  I'm 

         6   Darlene Lewis, as Bob has mentioned.  

         7                  I just wanted to give you a little 

         8   update on the Community Outdoor Outreach Program. 

         9   It's been around since 1996.  It was introduced in 

        10   a legislative rider with an original budget of 

        11   $250,000 a year.  Now, to date we've funded 110 

        12   projects with over 400,000 of those dollars going 

        13   into the Houston area, which is one of the 

        14   targeted areas for our regional proposal that 

        15   you're going to be hearing a little more more 

        16   about today.  

        17                  Just to give you an idea of where 

        18   the Fiscal Year 2000 regional funding has gone so 

        19   far:  To the Houston area, over $150,000; the 

        20   Dallas area, $130,000; and in San Antonio, about 

        21   $42,307.  

        22                  The Community Outdoor Outreach 

        23   Program is going to play a critical role in the 

        24   regional pilot program, because one of the most 

        25   effective things that we've gotten from this 
.                                                                    17



         1   program is the partnerships that we have been able 

         2   to build with this program.  

         3                  And so in order to increase some of 

         4   those partnership relationships, what we're hoping 

         5   to do is to increase our grant-writing efforts by 

         6   having more workshops in these regional areas, 

         7   which will also help us to enhance the public 

         8   awareness in these areas; the volunteer training 

         9   program so that we can build more of a minority 

        10   base of volunteers so that we can have access to 

        11   people who could help us with other projects 

        12   around other areas of the State; our local 

        13   outreach areas; and also working with the Sheldon 

        14   facility in Houston as a support and training 

        15   facility in development in that area.  

        16                  One of the things that we have done 

        17   also to address this particular issue is we've 

        18   modified the the grant scoring criteria to 

        19   emphasize this regional approach.  

        20                  One of the things that we have 

        21   found with the co-op program is many of the 

        22   programs have grown from the one-time 

        23   field-trip-type events to more stewardship/ 

        24   mentorship-type programs.  And so with the new 

        25   scoring system that you're going to be looking at 
.                                                                    18



         1   tomorrow, we have also included an educational 

         2   curriculum to this program so we can build new 

         3   users and participants in this program.  

         4                  And that's about it that I have to 

         5   say.  So if you have any questions, please feel 

         6   free.  Thank you.  

         7                  DR. McKINNEY:  Go ahead.  

         8                  MR. HALL:  Mr. Chairman, Members of 

         9   the Committe, my name is Steve Hall, Education 

        10   Director.  I'm going to cover the regional pilots 

        11   as alluded to by Bob and Darlene. 

        12                  The regional pilots essentially 

        13   will help us work with those who, No. 1, are 

        14   already involved in bringing kids outdoors; No. 2, 

        15   who have establish partnerships in those areas; 

        16   and, No. 3, who already espouse our mission, our 

        17   goals, our objectives and some of our programs at 

        18   our facilities.

        19                  The Nature Heritage Society in 

        20   Houston is such a group.  They have partnered with 

        21   the Houston Parks and Recreation Department and 

        22   also with the Houston ISD, Independent School 

        23   District.  They have also got corporations on 

        24   their side, and certainly civic organizations.  

        25                  The members here I'd like to point 
.                                                                    19



         1   out today are Glen Miller and David Baxter, if 

         2   you'll raise your hands, guys.  And we worked with 

         3   Glen and David a long time in programs like 

         4   hunter education and angler education.  

         5                  And another one of the groups 

         6   represented here today and on the team in that 

         7   respect are also the Buffalo Soldiers Hunting and 

         8   Fishing Club.  They are a new organization in the 

         9   Houston area.  Members represented here today and 

        10   who have hung with us all day long are Glenn 

        11   Miller, Clinton Anderson, and Chris Below.         

        12                  And certainly working with Linton 

        13   and others down in the Houston region.  

        14                  These are the types of 

        15   organizations that we're going to try to work 

        16   with, in conjunction, of course, with our 

        17   divisions, every division represented down at the 

        18   Houston area.  And, certainly, as mentioned 

        19   before, Sheldon Lake State Park would be one nice 

        20   facility to center these efforts; but not to 

        21   forget, obviously, other areas like Sea Center 

        22   Texas and some of Brazos Bend State Park, Houston 

        23   State Park, and the other fine parks that we have 

        24   down there.    

        25                  We don't want to forget two other 
.                                                                    20



         1   areas that we'd like to start in, as well, and 

         2   that's the Dallas-Fort Worth area and the 

         3   San Antonio area:  Dallas-Fort Worth, for example, 

         4   working with organizations like the Inner City 

         5   Fishing Institute in bringing more and more 

         6   inner-city kids to the Texas fresh Water Fisheries 

         7   Center, for example.  

         8                  In San Antonio, certainly the 

         9   ongoing and new development in Government Canyon 

        10   represents for us one of those new areas to bring 

        11   inner-city kids or the kids from the Alamo City 

        12   and expose them to really our and services via 

        13   many of the things that you've at least heard 

        14   about today or in past meetings.

        15                  These regional pilots will be 

        16   hooked up essentially with the co-op program, as 

        17   mentioned by Darlene.  They will be hooked up with 

        18   Outdoors Kids, as mentioned by Bob.  

        19                  Certainly we're going to try to 

        20   contract for service and/or do cooperative 

        21   agreements in these efforts to make sure that we 

        22   look first of all at results or give them the 

        23   expectations very clearly as to what we need out 

        24   of this, and then look at the results for more of 

        25   a contractual nature rather than just a granting 
.                                                                    21



         1   mechanism that the co-op grants serve.  

         2                  And, finally, monitoring and 

         3   evaluation will be an important component, because 

         4   we've felt like we've scratched the surface. 

         5   We've done very good things in education and 

         6   outreach these past 10 years, rather a shotgun 

         7   approach, and lots of things going on throughout 

         8   the State.  

         9                  But I think the one thing that we 

        10   can begin doing is really delving into:  Are these 

        11   programs being effective?  Are we effectively 

        12   reaching kids and women and minorities, people 

        13   with disabilities?  

        14                  And these are real questions asked 

        15   on the national level, as well as in Texas, and 

        16   certainly we want to try to lead the charge in 

        17   that as well with this effort. 

        18                  And with that, I know you've had a 

        19   long day and -- 

        20                  DR. McKINNEY:  Let me add 

        21   something.  I just wanted to add something to the 

        22   conclusion on that.                  

        23                  Where we're going to focus on first 

        24   in this outreach effort to bring all this together 

        25   that we've talked about briefly is in the Houston 
.                                                                    22



         1   area, our largest city.  I think it's going to be 

         2   our test bed, but it's also an important one for 

         3   us.  We have resources in place in our various 

         4   divisions, but we want to bring them together; and 

         5   we're going to use the Sheldon area as a focus for 

         6   us to develop its capacity.  It's got an 

         7   environmental education center.  From there we can 

         8   branch out to all the facilities that we have 

         9   there, but that will be an important part of what 

        10   we're doing.

        11                  What we'll be seeking your help 

        12   with is:  We can commit the resources that we've 

        13   talked about here with Outdoor Kids and with the 

        14   co-op grants, but that will not be enough.  And I 

        15   think not only will it not be enough resourcewise, 

        16   but what we're trying to develop is a true 

        17   partnership with the folks in the City of Houston, 

        18   the industry, and others.  And so what we'll be 

        19   seeking your help in is helping us get together 

        20   with those folks in Houston to basically challenge 

        21   with that, "Here we are.  We have the sites. We 

        22   have some resources.  But we're a place where you 

        23   can invest your resources to help us reach all the 

        24   folks in Houston, starting with the kids."  

        25                  And so I think it's an exciting 
.                                                                    23



         1   opportunity to demonstrate what we can do 

         2   together.  It will be, I think as I said earlier, 

         3   the platform that will launch us up to the level 

         4   that we need to to accomplish what we want to do 

         5   statewide.  

         6                  And so we'll be looking to, 

         7   Mr. Chairman, working with you and Members of this 

         8   Commission to make that happen, not only in 

         9   Houston -- certainly, there as the focus -- but 

        10   across the State.  

        11                  So with that and any questions or 

        12   whatever you might have, we'll be looking forward 

        13   to working with you.  

        14                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Madam Chair, 

        15   I'll turn it back to you. 

        16                  COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  All right. 

        17   Thank you. 

        18                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  I'll have a 

        19   lot to say at a later time.  

        20                  COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  All right. 

        21   We'll look forward to that.  

        22                  And thank you again, all of those 

        23   who came; but most importantly, thank you for the 

        24   good work that you're doing to help with this 


        25   outreach.  It's exciting to get this briefing.  
.                                                                    24



         1                  And with that, if there's no 

         2   further business to come before us this afternoon 

         3   -- and nobody speak up, please -- then we will 

         4   stand in recess.  Thank you.   

         5                           (RECESS)   

         6




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